What is wrong with our hobby???!

Charlie · August 2020

I have been reading a bunch of comics during the pandemic and got an itch to look at what an x-men no 1 might cost. Well the highest graded copies are close to $100k and the lowest are going for around $1000 (missing pages!)

There are currently 5000+ graded copies... This book is from 1963!

https://www.cgccomics.com/gallery/details.aspx?comic=201

What is wrong with our hobby??? You would think the greatest movies ever with low population posters would match these.

I mean I know we argue the rarity of say Mad Max but even if there are 300 copies out there - that is a drop in the bucket compared to comics. AND the new flock to these art prints (Iâ€™m guilt of buying them..)

Wonder if itâ€™s lack of availability in mass quantities make it commercially unattractive. Basically, you can only buy what you see.

Iâ€™m stumped. Sports cards too! Mike Trout RC from 2011 sell for $3-4K... They made 20,000 of them...

Rant over...

theartofmovieposters · August 2020

Nothing is wrong with our hobby I reckon.

I think its a bit different.
Kids collected and loved comics and cards.
When the kids grow up they want to get back what they had.

Movie posters...hmmm, dunno many kids that collect movie posters.
Sure we had movies that we loved growing up, but after we acquire the few we really cherish, we are done usually.
Posters are hard. You have to be able to store them, display them.

You can get containers and the like to store comics and cards...Who has walls to display 100 posters?

Those who want a few nice ones for their theatre room are happy with 20 buck repros...

I think a few with a love of film or art or both, venture into posters more fully, but I think we are a select few.

Bruce · August 2020

1) The biggest problem is that several very large sellers openly sell repros as originals, ripping off hundreds or thousands of potential new collectors each year. They openly sell on eBay, and NO ONE does anything about it, including eBay. To many of us old-timers it is easy to tell fakes from originals. It would likely help if posters came with COAs simply declaring them originals, but you can't "slab" one-sheets, so how do you know the COA belongs to a specific poster, short of DNA tags and the like, which have been tried and failed.

2) The second biggest problem is that many desirable items are incredibly rare. Yes, if you want to collect 1960s on posters, for the most part every one is obtainable and the only question is the price, as is true in baseball cards and comic books.

But for most desirable 1950s and older posters, you CAN'T buy many of them no matter how much you are willing to pay, and that surely turns off many would-be new collectors.

This "lack of supply" also means a massive shortage of dealers of older material. Dealers have no easy way to replenish their stock of older material, so there is a constant problem of not many dealers with a reasonable stock of vintage material that is TRULY desirable. In comics or baseball cards, there is a massive flow of older material entering those hobbies from people finding them in their attics. This is hardly ever true for posters.

And of course there are display issues, as Ves points out, and massive restoration issues. Many auctions are all too happy to sell heavily restored items as having "minor fold and border wear", and the newer collectors who get stuck with those likely exit the hobby as fast as the ones who got ripped off by a repro seller.

Every week we are sent a number of repros as consignments by people who were sold them as originals. This is a GIANT problem in the hobby that is being ignored.

darolo · August 2020

Movie poster collecting is also much more diverse, I would say any comic any collector would desire Superman no 1 or X-Men no 1 but those who want a first printing Star Wars or the Thing probably don't give a hoot for a Bette Davis poster at any price let alone at 5 figures. I look often enough at dealer web site listings and they have attractive vintage pre-1950 material but much of it is there year after year and it's either overpriced or the market for it is small, and only going to get smaller unless the hobby gets much larger. All the You Tube videos of people showing off their posters - they are all for 1950s and onward collections, and more especially 1970s and later. A 1970 poster now is definitely vintage for new collectors.

Pancho · September 2020

I don't know if it's as simple as availability. True, there are ample examples of some key comics and cards out there, but there are certainly other 'grail' items that a collector may have to spends years to track down - which is the same for posters. Similarly, some of the most expensive baseball cards and comics are 70, 80+ years old - making it unlikely that most collectors are recapturing their youth. Key comics (eg. origin issues) have been reprinted numerous times for those who just want to read them, but that doesn't effect the price of the originals.

I think it really comes down to a numbers game. Our hobby just isn't anywhere as big as these others! Look here:

https://www.psacard.com/pop/baseball-cards/1952/topps/49722

The 1952 Topps set is hugely popular and PSA have graded more than 250,000 cards from that set - including nearly 1,400 examples of Mickey Mantle.

And that's just one company's numbers!

As a contrast - Bruce, probably the largest poster site online, has auctioned less than 200 one sheets for The Godfather in nearly 2 decades.

We even have a thread on here about only known copies of a poster. It's safe to say we deal with far rarer items and I think that why the number of people in the hobby is less, which in turns decreases demand / prices.

Charlie · September 2020

I feel like our hobby is a sleeping giant... One day people are going to wake up and realize that they are paying $$$$ for a copy of Spider-Man 300 (first appearance of venom) when there have been almost 20,000 of them graded just by one company. Basically everyone has one and you could get one at anytime. The irony is that comic collectors use movies to speculate on comic values.

In contrast the most desirable comic in the world is Action Comics No. 1 and there have been only 72 graded by CGC. So maybe 100 copies graded and another 100 hiding?

What are some premium titles that could have a known population around 100 or less...?

And why donâ€™t they sell for six and seven figures... We just havenâ€™t done a good job of making our hobby an attractive investment... People buy comics and cards thinking investment.

Hell even the home theater nerds buy fake posters.

I think we are in a good spot in terms of scarcity. How do we wake people up?

John · September 2020

What is wrong with our hobby??? You would think the greatest movies ever with low population posters would match these.

I don't think there is anything wrong with our hobby. High prices shouldn't be the major indicator. Many, many thousands of movies have been made over the years and that means a hugely diverse range of collectors that is steadily growing. There have been quite a lot of collectors and dealers who have amassed a mountain of material over the years and those collections are gradually appearing on the marketplace as the collectors get older. Some of these collections include high end titles that have not been seen for sale before so there may be some big prices coming soon. I think that the hobby will continue to grow and prosper (despite some rumors of troubled waters ahead).

Pancho · October 2020

I wonder, too, if some of the difference is due to the fact that something like basketball cards are made purely as collectibles. Signed cards, relic cards, limited die-cut cards - they're all designed simply for people to collect, swap and sell. Posters (and advertising in general) are primarily a 'tool of the trade', something to be used to generate income for a business and then disposed of. I would imagine that the people who collect petroliana, tobacco related items, alcohol related items, coca-cola etc. probably find themselves in the same place we do. Lots or repros for the casual enthusiast and a high level of scarcity for the real stuff.

finepostervault · February 25

Charlie said:

I think we are in a good spot in terms of scarcity. How do we wake people up?

Hello Charlie. You wrote your post six years ago — at a time when there was no AI, when social media didn’t allow you to generate cats playing baseball via a prompt, or produce seemingly perfect action scenes within minutes — entirely without Industrial Light & Magic.

In fact, I do see prices rising. De facto, it seems to be somewhere between 5 and 15% per year. I also notice that on Prime Video (Amazon) there are more and more classic niche channels, and that people are rediscovering the magic of old Technicolor films and Harryhausen monsters. Today’s actors stand in front of green screens. It won’t be long before even those actors disappear — replaced by AI. AI doesn’t get sick, doesn’t complain, doesn’t demand backend participation, and isn’t unionized.

There will come a time when films advertise the fact that their actors are real.

What fundamentally distinguishes movie posters from trading cards is the absence of completion addiction. “I’m still missing one card!” — that dynamic doesn’t exist with movie posters. Also, for the average person, it is almost impossible to understand how many variants exist (Studio, Style A, B, D, Circus, etc.).

In the end, it’s like stocks. Whoever holds, wins. The only question is what you are holding. 😉

Movie posters have spatial dominance, and not every wife can be convinced that a poster doesn’t necessarily have to match the color of the pillows and curtains — even if it cost $5,000. I know what I’m talking about. I have a poster ban in the living room. 🙂

Charlie · February 26

Interesting. I think there are a lot of ideas that can be explored with AI. You’ve given me a lot to think about. It’s nice to have the new energy!

please keep at it!

Rick · February 26

Bruce's old point about eBay doing nothing to stop fakes is still true. I recently found a `signed' Elvis album that wasn't released until after he died. I contacted the seller and let them know it was an obviously fake signature. I included the dates the album was released, pointing out it didn't exist when Elvis was alive. They failed to respond and the over-priced item remained.
I contacted eBay twice and both times they responded to say the item didn't breach their guidelines.
I think they might need to review their guidelines.

Charlie · February 26

Actually, I think completionism does exist.

I now think what hurts are hobby the most is lack of availability. In the sense that card and comic shops are abundant and easily restocked. If I want a comic, I can find the majority of main stream stories. AND I don’t have to worry about bootlegs or fakes.

Those hobbies are commercially driven - products are made to be sold.

Our hobby is probably the largest where the item we collect was not meant to be sold.

That is why many new collectors have turned to limited screen prints. They are predictable and available without having to educate yourself on bootlegs and fakes.

That is drying up because there are only so many blockbusters each year. How many Blade Runner prints does one collector need.

For example of the 1000+ films released last year, only 100+ saw a wide release.

So 100 movies with wide release - and what 20 worth buying a poster for?

Now - comics - 50 new titles a week?

Cards - I have no clue.

I do think people are starving for movie memorabilia - that is why the limited print space opened up.

There just isn’t enough to keep average collectors excited.

What is wrong with our hobby???!

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