Mark asked which South Pacific daybill came first?
I have been working for years on identifying where there are two similar daybill poster designs printed to establish which one came first or if one is a re-release poster or not or perhaps a follow up printing. There are absolutely no clues on these images and seeing the two posters were printed by the same printer Robert Burton there is no way of determining which one was printed first. Good luck, you will certainly require some.
At a guess only the one on the right an original release daybill poster and the one on the left a second printing perhaps or even a re-issue poster. the reason they are so similar is due to the same printer copying from the original and they never get it completely the same.
Anyone else think it is the one on the right that is the first one printed?
I have just been on eMovieposter.com where they have 21 images of the South Pacific daybill displayed and there are 6 only of the design that I believe is the first printing ( has extra stars and is printed lighter ) and 15 of the other design. As with I'll Cry Tomorrow, High Society and countless other daybilsl the follow up printing always has more copies in the marketplace.,
As I earlier had guessed I now firmly believe ( without proof ) the poster on the right with the extra stars is the one that was printed first.
Mark asked which South Pacific daybill came first?
I have been working for years on identifying where there are two similar daybill poster designs printed to establish which one came first or if one is a re-release poster or not or perhaps a follow up printing. There are absolutely no clues on these images and seeing the two posters were printed by the same printer Robert Burton there is no way of determining which one was printed first. Go luck, you will certainly require some.
Hondo.
I would go with your earlier comment. No proof - only speculation.
I guess the question is: in '58/9 were Burton signing the Fox daybills Pty Ltd or Pty Ltd Sydney?????
South Pacific, according to IMDB, was released in Sydney on the 26th of December, 1958. From a list I have ( not complete ) for 20th Century Fox releases in 1958 in Australia there were 9 daybills found with Robert Burton Pty Ltd & 6 daybills with Robert Burton Pty Ltd Sydney printed on them, so unfortunately this won't through any light on solving the matter at hand.I have a list of titles with both types of Robert Burton's name on the daybills from 1959 through to 1963 when I stopped recording Robert Burton's complete printer's details for 20th Century Fox daybills.
It is a mystery of which daybill came first. I have only voiced my opinion but as John said ''No proof - only speculation''. We will most likely never have a 100% correct answer.
There are a number of places where one can research historical company records depending on the type of information required: ASICs, Australian National University, Noel Butlin Archive Centre, State Records of New South Wales...
I guess the question is: in '58/9 were Burton signing the Fox daybills Pty Ltd or Pty Ltd Sydney?????
South Pacific, according to IMDB, was released in Sydney on the 26th of December, 1958. From a list I have ( not complete ) for 20th Century Fox releases in 1958 in Australia there were 9 daybills found with Robert Burton Pty Ltd & 6 daybills with Robert Burton Pty Ltd Sydney printed on them, so unfortunately this won't through any light on solving the matter at hand.I have a list of titles with both types of Robert Burton's name on the daybills from 1959 through to 1963 when I stopped recording Robert Burton's complete printer's details for 20th Century Fox daybills.
It is a mystery of which daybill came first. I have only voiced my opinion but as John said ''No proof - only speculation''. We will most likely never have a 100% correct answer.
Hondo.
What Fox titles from 1958 are you seeing with Sydney printed at end?
What Fox titles from 1958 are you seeing with Sydney printed at end?
Firstly thank you Mark for starting the thread on the question about the two South Pacific daybill posters. Because of looking into this I have found another major film from 1958 with two similar daybill posters printed that I will open a new discussion on.
The 1958 daybills printed with the Robert Burton Pty Ltd Sydney credit on them are as follows---
Sing Boy Sing
'Villa
Cattle Empire
The Fiend That walked The West
Wolf Dog ( I'm sure this is one with the Sydney on it.The problem is a censorship rating has been placed over all the copies in the bottom right hand corner covering most of the printer's details. But judging from the beginning details through to the end it appears that it would be the length of the RB name with Sydney on the end. You can only see the letter y on the ending..
I think you have re-releases in your database, because Villa, Cattle Empire & Sing Boy Sing are all printed by W.E Smith.
The original Peyton Place has no Sydney, other versions I suspect are re-releases.
The inside word has always been that the black triangle SP is first issue. I feel if we work through all the 1958 Fox titles carefully you will find none have Sydney at end, proving the other poster is R60s, possibly R67.
Yesterday I looked through quite a few 1959 Fox titles and didn't see Sydney on any of those either.
What Fox titles from 1958 are you seeing with Sydney printed at end?
Sorry Mark I was only answering this question and not your earlier one asking about Robert Burton posters.I did this very late last night when I should have been in bed so I apparently wasn't functioning 100%.when I lmentioned the films, with the exception of Peyton Place,as being Robert Burton when in fact they were W.E.Smith.
What I can say though is the first Robert Burton daybill poster with Sydney on the end appears to be in 1960. Do you agree?
You also mentioned ""The inside word has always been that the black triangle SP is first issue''. At least the inside word and I agree.
From My Drafts I will post the new thread on Peyton Place I organised last nigh,t without changing what I wrote at the time
Haven't done much research on the poster with faded triangle, so no idea if 1960. Truth is I just believed what a reliable source told me years ago, and only started closely looking at the differences yesterday!
You would have seen imdb has a re-release date for South Pacific in 1967, which is where I got R67 from.
At some point Burton added Sydney at the end, and there would have been a reason, which was most likely so potential customers could find them in the phone book etc. By searching (with great patience) through the years, you could probably pinpoint roughly when they changed.
Haven't done much research on the poster with faded triangle, so no idea if 1960. Truth is I just believed what a reliable source told me years ago, and only started closely looking at the differences yesterday!
You would have seen imdb has a re-release date for South Pacific in 1967, which is where I got R67 from.
At some point Burton added Sydney at the end, and there would have been a reason, which was most likely so potential customers could find them in the phone book etc. By searching (with great patience) through the years, you could probably pinpoint roughly when they changed.
Ah yes, but what if the first time they did it was with South Pacific?!!
At some point Burton added Sydney at the end, and there would have been a reason, which was most likely so potential customers could find them in the phone book etc. By searching (with great patience) through the years, you could probably pinpoint roughly when they changed.
The Sydney on the end of the Burton credits appear to have started being printed in 1960 with 20th Century Fox releases and continued on from there. The Robert Burton Pty Ltd only printer's identification which was on Fox films of the late 1950s continued on Fox films to at least 1961. During 1960 & 1961 both versions were used on Fox daybills. There is a 1963 Fox film titled The Stripper that appears to be without the Sydney on the end but that area of the poster is slightly covered but I don't think it is possible to have the word Sydney used in the covered area.. Remember this information is relevant to 20th Century Fox daybill posters only. To research all the other companies BEF, WB and others would take a great deal of time for very little reward.
Comments
Mark asked which South Pacific daybill came first?
I have been working for years on identifying where there are two similar daybill poster designs printed to establish which one came first or if one is a re-release poster or not or perhaps a follow up printing. There are absolutely no clues on these images and seeing the two posters were printed by the same printer Robert Burton there is no way of determining which one was printed first. Good luck, you will certainly require some.
Hondo.
Which is and how does this help?
Hondo
At a guess only the one on the right an original release daybill poster and the one on the left a second printing perhaps or even a re-issue poster. the reason they are so similar is due to the same printer copying from the original and they never get it completely the same.
Anyone else think it is the one on the right that is the first one printed?
I have just been on eMovieposter.com where they have 21 images of the South Pacific daybill displayed and there are 6 only of the design that I believe is the first printing ( has extra stars and is printed lighter ) and 15 of the other design. As with I'll Cry Tomorrow, High Society and countless other daybilsl the follow up printing always has more copies in the marketplace.,
As I earlier had guessed I now firmly believe ( without proof ) the poster on the right with the extra stars is the one that was printed first.
Hondo
South Pacific, according to IMDB, was released in Sydney on the 26th of December, 1958. From a list I have ( not complete ) for 20th Century Fox releases in 1958 in Australia there were 9 daybills found with Robert Burton Pty Ltd & 6 daybills with Robert Burton Pty Ltd Sydney printed on them, so unfortunately this won't through any light on solving the matter at hand.I have a list of titles with both types of Robert Burton's name on the daybills from 1959 through to 1963 when I stopped recording Robert Burton's complete printer's details for 20th Century Fox daybills.
It is a mystery of which daybill came first. I have only voiced my opinion but as John said ''No proof - only speculation''. We will most likely never have a 100% correct answer.
Hondo.
.
Funny thing is the ones I have sold (and still have) are the ones you are saying are first release.
I think you have a fair theory but no proof as yet as to whether one of them is a second printing or a reissue or ........
The Sydney on the end of the Burton credits appear to have started being printed in 1960 with 20th Century Fox releases and continued on from there. The Robert Burton Pty Ltd only printer's identification which was on Fox films of the late 1950s continued on Fox films to at least 1961. During 1960 & 1961 both versions were used on Fox daybills. There is a 1963 Fox film titled The Stripper that appears to be without the Sydney on the end but that area of the poster is slightly covered but I don't think it is possible to have the word Sydney used in the covered area.. Remember this information is relevant to 20th Century Fox daybill posters only. To research all the other companies BEF, WB and others would take a great deal of time for very little reward.
Hondo