The only items I've every paperbacked were the WC, one LC, and two adverts. My two melamine boards are ok with backing them, but not my table top as I think it's too porous.
I'd like to try Mulberry paper, esp on the thicker LC's, WC, Half Sheets or Inserts. Need to get some Mulberry from Talas.
@ Charlie -Questions:
1) Think you'd ever try gel backing for fun? (am guessing there'd be some significant expense involved).
I'd like to try it, but with wheat paste; maybe a double support of Hollytex? Then remove the Htex from the back of the card and see how it holds up?
2) Do you lay down the Holytex, Mulberry AND Lobby at the same time? or similar to a Linenbacking, do you lay down the Htex & Mulberry on day 1, let it dry and then wash, glue the lobby.
1. Yes! There is actually a gel adhesive that I purchased and never took out of the box. I can't remember the name of it right off the top of my head. I also bought it because it has special temperature properties. It is only soluble in warm water or visa versa...
2. I think you would just put down holytex and then the card. After they were dry you would pull it all up and then peel the holytex off...
I understand paperbacking "heavier" papers, as it doesn't need the support; aren't those double crowns on thinner paper? Like a one sheet? I know you've mentioned in the past wanting to paperback a one sheet to see the results.
What is the benefit of paperbacking something of such thin paper?
Can these posters receive restoration as easily if placed on a board as opposed to masa and then linen?
Doesn't the think paperbacking leave the edge of the poster exposed to possible damage?
It certainly seems like a less expensive/labor event... as no canvas has to be stretched, glue masa, wait a day, then glue poster.
The crowns are a thick as the polish boom you did. It has the same benefits of linenbacking IMO. I've stated in the past that the poster just feels better - I don't trim the paper all the way to the edge but leave about the same amount as a linenbacked poster. The only issue is that the poster can be folded by accident easier, I guess. But I don't see this happening without carelessness. Generally after the poster was taken off, it has the same feel as a lobby card or insert. It's very sturdy like a fresh print. It is actually easier to restore because there is a solid surface directly under the poster. It is a lot easier to apply water color pencil work and do burnishing. I still waited a day to let the paper and holytex dry to the board. In fact these boards had been sitting around ready to go for months.
The crowns are a thick as the polish boom you did. It has the same benefits of linenbacking IMO. I've stated in the past that the poster just feels better - I don't trim the paper all the way to the edge but leave about the same amount as a linenbacked poster. The only issue is that the poster can be folded by accident easier, I guess. But I don't see this happening without carelessness. Generally after the poster was taken off, it has the same feel as a lobby card or insert. It's very sturdy like a fresh print. It is actually easier to restore because there is a solid surface directly under the poster. It is a lot easier to apply water color pencil work and do burnishing. I still waited a day to let the paper and holytex dry to the board. In fact these boards had been sitting around ready to go for months.
Hey! this is interesting stuff to me!
Like the fact it has a more natural feel (will need to order Mulberry) ----Really attracted to the fact it's easier to restore (solid surface under poster) and apply water color pencils and burnishing. And no canvas to stretch!
I still need to clean off a lot of residue but am worried that scrubbing away may melt it. So I am experimenting with temporarily face mounting a daybill and applying bestine, scrubbing etc. and seeing the results once I remove the temporary mount. I'm going to post that in a separate thread...
My remaining tape residue-and this is an example of which many fold lines were typical on my Seven Brides. I lightly sanded these folds to remove the residue when dry. It was tough going as to not break the already weak fold lines.
Ok, I dove right in... Face mounted the 10 Commandments. I had to mix in a little alcohol to get the water to penetrate fast enough to relax the poster and it worked great. You can see where the tape residue has hardened on the fold lines. I'll keep you guys posted.
I scrubbed and scrubbed with bestine and then gave it a lite sanding. I tested to make sure water was absorbing and it was. Just removed it from the holytex and it is now ready for wash, deacidification and a lite bleach.
I had to be really careful around the edges. The only slip up is this left side where I lengthened a small fold separation.
There is the same lite residue that will need to be massaged off in the wash. There was even a pieces that separated when I pulled off the tape that stayed in place after the face mount.
Awesome! Trailblazing new technique, and sharing! Who does that?!!!
Results are fantastic! Major difference in removal of nasty tape residue. After the wash, deacidification & lite bleaching it'll be ready for resto & look great! Keep the updates coming!
Gotta ask though, when you say you scrubbed and scrubbed with Bestine, I'm guessing you're soaking residue with Bestine, but "scrubbing" with what? ...after the poster had dried? ...what grit sandpaper did you use? Thanks!
I am absolutely amazed at this Charlie. I honestly thought this one might be beyond saving. Any mention of the term amateur needs to be removed from your restoration abilities. I've seen many a restored poster by "professionals" that would not compare and you aren't even done yet.
I can't wait to get this one back and display it proudly alongside my daybills done by Susan O...something nice about having something worked on by fellow hobbyists!
I am absolutely amazed at this Charlie. I honestly thought this one might be beyond saving. Any mention of the term amateur needs to be removed from your restoration abilities. I've seen many a restored poster by "professionals" that would not compare and you aren't even done yet.
I can't wait to get this one back and display it proudly alongside my daybills done by Susan O...something nice about having something worked on by fellow hobbyists!
Well, it's done and backed. I only had one more injury/piece detach during the wash that I grabbed quickly. I was able to place it in after the I put the main poster on.
This is poster was one tough cookie. First all the tape removal, temporary backing, scrubbing and sanding... I had to massage off the temporary wheat paste once I got it wet and then bleached the hell out the tape stains (mostly removed) and it went straight on without any incident.
Ironically the other daybill you gave me that was completely intact and all I did was wash and bleach; cleaned up like a gem. But then (probably shouldn't even tell you guys...) when I started applying the wheat paste, it separated at the folds and was all funny business - even after I got it on the mulberry. It was like defusing a time bomb to get everything lined up but I got it worked out... I'll have to clean up the edges but whew!
Then I got to work on a piece that I've been wanting to hang up - Godfather Spanish Half Sheet. It was water damaged in the four corners, had tape all across the center folds and these weird water based repairs on the edges. It is super rare and I hope the touch ups go as well as the backing.
Am i right that the process of linen backing would expand the paper fibres and weaken the paper? Obviously linen would provide support.
But if a poster was to be rebacked and rebacked would it reach a point where it seprates in the wash?
I reakon a cool experiment when you have the time would be to take a mint poster ( a cheapy) with fold lines and see how many times it can be rebacked before it becomes unmanageable... care to guess?
I think it depends on the treatment. So a simple wash only weakens it slightly vs. a full bleach job which destroys the lignin in the paper... I would imagine you could reback a non-bleached poster around 4 or 5 times before it would melt depending on original thickness. If a poster had been significantly bleached maybe once or twice before it would become tissue paper. I would love to do this expirement but the time and energy involved would be overwhelming.
I thought you had some literature or at least I think Ive read some place where if an old poster was washed in many cases, the rehydration of the paper fibers actually added strength back to the paper. This was in a test involving paper strength and at what point it would tear.
Comments
very nice! Thanks for posting!
The only items I've every paperbacked were the WC, one LC, and two adverts. My two melamine boards are ok with backing them, but not my table top as I think it's too porous.
I'd like to try Mulberry paper, esp on the thicker LC's, WC, Half Sheets or Inserts. Need to get some Mulberry from Talas.
@ Charlie -Questions:
1) Think you'd ever try gel backing for fun? (am guessing there'd be some significant expense involved).
I'd like to try it, but with wheat paste; maybe a double support of Hollytex? Then remove the Htex from the back of the card and see how it holds up?
2) Do you lay down the Holytex, Mulberry AND Lobby at the same time? or similar to a Linenbacking, do you lay down the Htex & Mulberry on day 1, let it dry and then wash, glue the lobby.
Thanks!
2. I think you would just put down holytex and then the card. After they were dry you would pull it all up and then peel the holytex off...
Very nice!
I understand paperbacking "heavier" papers, as it doesn't need the support; aren't those double crowns on thinner paper? Like a one sheet? I know you've mentioned in the past wanting to paperback a one sheet to see the results.
What is the benefit of paperbacking something of such thin paper?
Can these posters receive restoration as easily if placed on a board as opposed to masa and then linen?
Doesn't the think paperbacking leave the edge of the poster exposed to possible damage?
It certainly seems like a less expensive/labor event... as no canvas has to be stretched, glue masa, wait a day, then glue poster.
Thanks!
The crowns are a thick as the polish boom you did. It has the same benefits of linenbacking IMO. I've stated in the past that the poster just feels better - I don't trim the paper all the way to the edge but leave about the same amount as a linenbacked poster. The only issue is that the poster can be folded by accident easier, I guess. But I don't see this happening without carelessness. Generally after the poster was taken off, it has the same feel as a lobby card or insert. It's very sturdy like a fresh print. It is actually easier to restore because there is a solid surface directly under the poster. It is a lot easier to apply water color pencil work and do burnishing. I still waited a day to let the paper and holytex dry to the board. In fact these boards had been sitting around ready to go for months.
Hey! this is interesting stuff to me!
Like the fact it has a more natural feel (will need to order Mulberry) ----Really attracted to the fact it's easier to restore (solid surface under poster) and apply water color pencils and burnishing. And no canvas to stretch!
Thanks!
Once I get permission I'll post the the pre and post tape removal pics...
After Tape Removal:
Everything came off without incident. This old daybill is a survivor!
Huge amount of tape on the backside! But...it looks like (from the pieces you showed) it came off in fairly large strips.
-How long did it take you to remove all those pieces?
The front looks fairly intact, but those tape stains are wicked.
- Your hoping that by removing as much as possible the tape residue on backside, that the front will look all that much better when washed/bleached?
Such a wrinkled poster, getting rid of the tape residue is gonna be such a challenge! Great effort!
Yup!
So did you spray the poster with some alcohol added, or submerge
I scrubbed and scrubbed with bestine and then gave it a lite sanding. I tested to make sure water was absorbing and it was. Just removed it from the holytex and it is now ready for wash, deacidification and a lite bleach.
I had to be really careful around the edges. The only slip up is this left side where I lengthened a small fold separation.
There is the same lite residue that will need to be massaged off in the wash. There was even a pieces that separated when I pulled off the tape that stayed in place after the face mount.
Before vs. After scrubbing (pardon the toe):
Neither. I used the innovative "I didn't have my shit together, so I mixed it in a jar and brushed it on..." method. I usually spray it though.
Results are fantastic! Major difference in removal of nasty tape residue. After the wash, deacidification & lite bleaching it'll be ready for resto & look great! Keep the updates coming!
Gotta ask though, when you say you scrubbed and scrubbed with Bestine, I'm guessing you're soaking residue with Bestine, but "scrubbing" with what? ...after the poster had dried? ...what grit sandpaper did you use? Thanks!
I'll have to check the grit but it's one of those wet sanding sheet so at least 400...
I am absolutely amazed at this Charlie. I honestly thought this one might be beyond saving. Any mention of the term amateur needs to be removed from your restoration abilities. I've seen many a restored poster by "professionals" that would not compare and you aren't even done yet.
I can't wait to get this one back and display it proudly alongside my daybills done by Susan O...something nice about having something worked on by fellow hobbyists!
I salute you sir!
:rock_on:
Well, it's done and backed. I only had one more injury/piece detach during the wash that I grabbed quickly. I was able to place it in after the I put the main poster on.
This is poster was one tough cookie. First all the tape removal, temporary backing, scrubbing and sanding... I had to massage off the temporary wheat paste once I got it wet and then bleached the hell out the tape stains (mostly removed) and it went straight on without any incident.
Ironically the other daybill you gave me that was completely intact and all I did was wash and bleach; cleaned up like a gem. But then (probably shouldn't even tell you guys...) when I started applying the wheat paste, it separated at the folds and was all funny business - even after I got it on the mulberry. It was like defusing a time bomb to get everything lined up but I got it worked out... I'll have to clean up the edges but whew!
Then I got to work on a piece that I've been wanting to hang up - Godfather Spanish Half Sheet. It was water damaged in the four corners, had tape all across the center folds and these weird water based repairs on the edges. It is super rare and I hope the touch ups go as well as the backing.
Am i right that the process of linen backing would expand the paper fibres and weaken the paper? Obviously linen would provide support.
But if a poster was to be rebacked and rebacked would it reach a point where it seprates in the wash?
I reakon a cool experiment when you have the time would be to take a mint poster ( a cheapy) with fold lines and see how many times it can be rebacked before it becomes unmanageable... care to guess?
Thanks charlie!!!
I thought you had some literature or at least I think Ive read some place where if an old poster was washed in many cases, the rehydration of the paper fibers actually added strength back to the paper. This was in a test involving paper strength and at what point it would tear.