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Ghosting Poster Problems



Phantom Gold ( 1938 ). An upside down image on the reverse side of the same poster visible with the words ''Gold'' and  ''For General Exhibition'' viewable.

This poster discussed on the thread Only Known Copies had me thinking of other examples of this ghosting problem. Following is another example of this type of problem.





Malaga ( 1954  ) ( U.S.A. Fire Over Africa ) daybill,  Hobson's Choice ( 1954 ) daybill & another Malaga daybill with the previous Hobson's Choice daybill's image appearing on the back of the poster clearly readable on this Malaga image. Both Malaga and Hobson's Choice films were released in Australia by London Films through Universal and the printer was most likely F.Cunninghame, although not credited, they were the preferred printer for Universal at that period of time. Hobson's Choice was released in Australia in 1954 and Malaga in 1955.
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Comments

  • edited July 2018
    You can see how the heavy black rating and title are a mirror image on the paper. That is a shadow / ghosting effect from being folded. I don't think it's on the back, Lawrence. 
    Not sure about Malaga, but could be one poster laying on top of the other.
  • Here is a more severe problem caused by a dog ear. You can see how the colours are overlaid for a deeper black.




  • Mark said:
    You can see how the heavy black rating and title are a mirror image on the paper. That is a shadow / ghosting effect from being folded. I don't think it's on the back, Lawrence. 
    Not sure about Malaga, but could be one poster laying on top of the other.

    As I am not an expert at this sort of thing I am curious to know what does Mark ( Eisenhower ) has to say about this, so that we can  clear this up this Phantom Gold poster query?

    Regarding Malaga, wouldn't the poster paper be too thick to see an image of another poster underneath it? I have seen over the years numerous images of piles of posters and have have never seen this effect before. There may be other possibilities though and that is a photocopy on very thin paper of Malaga may have made this possible, or seeing that both Malaga and Hobson's Choice were each London Film duotone daybills,  perhaps both titles were printed at the same time and this one  Malaga poster was placed upon the Hobson's Choice daybill in error before the Hobson's Choice daybill copy ink had time to dry. I really don't know the answer though, so just offering possibilities on what could have taken place,
  • That's a really cool example on the Hulk Mark!

    The ghosting effect is pretty common especially on those duotone Aussie posters.  And in my experience it is from being folded presumably while the ink isn't completely dry.  

    On 'newer' posters my Blade Runner daybill shows some slight ghosting of the gold text (again from being folded over). 

    I have some examples I will try to share later.
  • Ghosting of Phantom Gold (censor) could not have been caused by it being folded onto itself as it is not a mirror image but the (ghost) image actually cuts across each other and yet still a full image. You could not fold that in any form and produce that same image.
  • So there were two copies of the Phantom, one underneath facing the other way with the water damage causing the ghosting. You can see "ack" (from Jack) in reverse under the "TO" in Phantom.

  • @David.  Was this a floorboard find? That could explain the ghosting in such an odd pattern will post her laying on top of it. 
  • Yeah there are presumably a few ways the ghosting could occur.  I was specifying that on the pieces I have it appears to be solely from folding
  • Matt said:

    So there were two copies of the Phantom, one underneath facing the other way with the water damage causing the ghosting. You can see "ack" (from Jack) in reverse under the "TO" in Phantom.

    IIRC there was only one found, it could have been the result of it being stored at the local theatre (the owner was a projectionist), it is possible he grabbed it from a stack he had at the theatre before laying it down as insulation. 
  • edited July 2018



    What I find interesting here is both Malaga and Hobson's Choice are London Films / Universal duotone daybills, most likely printed by F. Cunninghame about a year apart. Another thing to mention is that Malaga has been placed and photographed overlapping the Hobson's Choice daybill sitting under it. The ''London Films Presents'' wording at the top of Malaga is missing. Probably means nothing in the scheme of things though. All the possible explanations so far are mainly referring to Phantom Gold and not Malaga though.
  • David said:
    Ghosting of Phantom Gold (censor) could not have been caused by it being folded onto itself as it is not a mirror image but the (ghost) image actually cuts across each other and yet still a full image. You could not fold that in any form and produce that same image.
    I think you'll find that if the paper is folded just above the bottom line of the triangle then the shadow will cross over onto itself as we see on the poster.
  • That's a really cool example on the Hulk Mark!

    The ghosting effect is pretty common especially on those duotone Aussie posters.  And in my experience it is from being folded presumably while the ink isn't completely dry.  

    On 'newer' posters my Blade Runner daybill shows some slight ghosting of the gold text (again from being folded over). 

    I have some examples I will try to share later.
    The gold does seem to transfer on gloss paper as I have the same on a Phar Lap poster.
    For older posters like Phantom Gold my theory is that the ghosting occurs over a very long period of time rather than by ink that hasn't dried properly. Pressed together with weight creates the shadow.
  • here is a link to a discussion titled, "Toning" in which ghosting was previously discussed.

    http://vintagemoviepostersforum.com/discussion/comment/13219#Comment_13219

    @Charlie mentioned, ...."I tend to lean towards it being a mechanical "ghosting" versus say ink being wet and then folded... Poster is folded, pressed, humidity/temperature rise and fall - paper shrinks/swells..."

    The above would seem to seem to support your thoughts Mark. Ghosting impression over time, rather than wet ink after poster is printed & folded.

  • During WWII some of the large format UK posters were printed on both sides, but I have never seen it on Aussie paper.
    One on top of the other >>




  • here is a link to a discussion titled, "Toning" in which ghosting was previously discussed.

    http://vintagemoviepostersforum.com/discussion/comment/13219#Comment_13219

    @Charlie mentioned, ...."I tend to lean towards it being a mechanical "ghosting" versus say ink being wet and then folded... Poster is folded, pressed, humidity/temperature rise and fall - paper shrinks/swells..."

    The above would seem to seem to support your thoughts Mark. Ghosting impression over time, rather than wet ink after poster is printed & folded.

    Sometimes on very dark posters such as Die Hard etc the ink is visible on the back of the next poster as they pile up. I tend to believe that the ink is dry once they have been guillotined to size and then transferred to the folding machine.
  • Mark said:
    Traced over >>


    Conceded. Well done.


  • I am not too familiar with the printing of film posters process, which it seems the majority of participants on the forum do, so I would be very pleased if I can hear from various members, and in layman's terms would be appreciated, what they believe happened with the above poster, and solely this example, ending up in this state.
  • No mystery. I placed it on top of Keystone Cops and took a photograph so you can see how a poster underneath shows through, as in Malaga.

  • Mark said:
    No mystery. I placed it on top of Keystone Cops and took a photograph so you can see how a poster underneath shows through, as in Malaga.

    Thanks for that. The lesson then to learn from this explanation appears to be to photograph single posters on just a plain backdrop, and not on on top of a pile with other posters underneath, especially when photographing duotones that have vast amounts of plain white space and little in the way of images and wording on them.
  • Mark said:
    During WWII some of the large format UK posters were printed on both sides, but I have never seen it on Aussie paper.
    One on top of the other >>
    This daybill was printed on both sides - for different films. Interesting that there are different printers



  • Pretty cool. I've seen handwritten on back but never printed. Renwick Pride was involved with movie promotion very early on.
  • Mark said:
    Pretty cool. I've seen handwritten on back but never printed. Renwick Pride was involved with movie promotion very early on.
    I cant recall any similar examples. Note the spelling error with Florence Bates' name. 

  • For the Gunga Din ( 1939 ) & Tuttles Of Tahiti ( 1942 ) two sided poster, I am curious to hear some thoughts on which title was printed first? Was is the obvious Gunga Din or was it the less obvious Tuttles of Tahiti?
  • Gunga Din is a RR right...never heard of the printer on the other poster...
  • RKO sure did some weird stuff in Australia!
  • Gunga Din is a RR right...never heard of the printer on the other poster...
    Have a look at some early Chaplin dbs for Renwick Pride. They seemed to be a general printer who dabbled in  lino-cut(?) posters from time to time. 
  • Ghost Town:




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